The Roll Call and Hillary as VP

Two things:

#1 - The idea that the DNC might omit a roll call at the convention seems extremely undemocratic to me.

I thought this was nothing more than a rumor, but it came up today at the "unity" for money meeting at the Mayflower.

Marc Ambinder mentions it here in his column:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arch ives/2008/06/after_the_press_leaves_some _ed_1.php

A question to obama was whether or not he would accept a roll call vote at the Convention.  

His response was they are negotiating this!

Huh?

Does anyone else see a problem with this?  

This is the closest race in Democratic History, not having a roll call is UN democratic.

Obama and Clinton are ONLY 127 pledged delegates apart with super delegates able to change their mind up until the vote at the convention.

Whether or not anyone agrees or disagrees on unity, etc. I cannot see any reasonable explanation that the DNC or Obama would deny the roll call.

It will surely cause even MORE friction among Hillary supporters if this were to happen.

#2 - did anyone catch this article by Bob Beckel at Real Clear Politics?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2008/05/if_clinton_wants_to_be_vp_obam .html

Essentially, he is saying that due to the close race, the Super Delegates will vote for the VP just like they will the Pres.

If Hillary wants to be VP, Obama is in no position to deny this with nearly 1/2 the delegates at the convention pledged hillary supporters.

However, kicking and dragging her into that spot and/or having a riot at the convention does not sound like a unifying position to me.

The fact that the roll call is even in question also suggests to me that Obama's position is far from unifying.  To me, this is non-negotiable when the race is this close.

Hillary supporters cannot be expected to get on the band wagon, only to then have their candidate shoved aside.



Display:


Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (1.33 / 3)

have at it.


by nikkid on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:22:47 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (1.73 / 15)

We're not telling McCain how to run his convention.  Don't tell us how to run ours.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:45:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 3)

And wow, looks like you're trollrating all my posts.  Right back at you.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:10:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So it's Obama's convention now? (2.00 / 3)

Funny. I thought it was the Democratic Party's convention. Last time I looked, approximately half of the Democratic Party were HRC supporters. Seems to me that might give them a right to a little input. Not sure what John McCain and the Republican convention have to do with anything.


by georgiapeach on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 12:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So it's Obama's convention now? (none / 0)

Having endorsed John McCain for president sort of removes your primary interest in what goes on at the Democratic national convention, does it not?

Does this even need explaining?  Did Joe Lieberman challenge the party when he was stripped of his delegate status after endorsing McCain?  Of course not.  Nor does the Republican Party accept input from Democrats, Democrat leaners, independants for Obama or whatever label you put on it.

When you switch sides, you SWITCH SIDES.  It's presumptuous to try to dictate terms.  Besides, what bargaining power do you have left?


by MeganLocke on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:48:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I would say I have exactly the same (none / 0)

bargaining power that you do. One vote. As far as the rest of your comment, it doesn't make much sense, even for all of it's arrogance and condescension. Not everybody that is refusing to vote for Obama has endorsed McCain, or even switched sides completely, and whether you like it or not, they still have exactly as much clout as you do. Maybe a little more, because Obama already has your vote, but he can't win without theirs.


by georgiapeach on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 02:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I would say I have exactly the same (none / 0)

I was speaking to the diarist, who has switched sides completely.


by MeganLocke on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 05:19:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

maybe (2.00 / 3)

You are going about this all wrong I think.

 title=


by Is This Snark on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 04:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 4)

Weather was nice here today.  It was really hot last week, but its cooled off nicely.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:27:45 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 4)

I brushed my teeth on the roof this morning (roof access AND an elevator - in NYC) and when I came back in my roommate asked me how it was outside.

I didn't know what to say.  It wasn't humid but it wasn't dry.  It wasn't hot but it wasn't cold.  It's the first time in my life that someone asked me about the weather and I was at a loss for words.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:42:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

oh great another weather Diary I love it (none / 0)

I live in Philly I have to brag about the weather we had last weekend a nice sunny 73 degrees  perfect weekend my GF did not even want to get into our weekly argument it was fantastic

I can only hope this weekend is half as good


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:20:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

I couldn't disagree more with you.


by xdem on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:28:40 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 2)

I'm ambivalent about it - it's symbolism after all - but the sudden interest that the McCain camp has in the minutiae of the Democratic National convention leads me to believe that they're up to no good.

Don't you think?  I mean why?


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:07:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (1.90 / 10)

"To me, this is non-negotiable..."

Uhh.. since when were you open to negotiation in the first place?  All we've heard from you is that unless Hillary Clinton is in the VP slot, you're going to vote for her ideological opposite.  If you're comfortable voting against your own self interests then go for it, but please stop beating us all over the head with the same tired ultimatum.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:54:26 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 6)

First, not sure how what I said warrants a troll rating.  Does pointing out that you're going to vote for McCain and against your own self interests to spite others embarrass you?  It should, but I doubt it.

Second, in regards to the roll call, I don't think Hillary would want a roll call in the first place.  Everyone except the most delusional of supporters realizes that Obama is our nominee, and unless we get a dead girl/live boy situation that is not going to change.

Third, this has nothing to do with being "undemocratic" and everything to do with you holding on to a shred of hope that someway, somehow, the superdelegates are going to see the error of their ways and vote for your candidate.  At least be honest about it.  You're not open for a dialog at all, let alone a negotiation.  It's your way or the highway, regardless what Hillary and the rest of the Democratic party want.

Fourth, I just want to point out that Hillary Clinton is freakin' awesome and I would have been proud to call her my President.  Unfortunately we had two amazing candidates and we had to pick one.  While most rational people are coming to grips with this, there are people that are willing to sell all of their ideals down the river simply because they are angry.  It's depressing, but I can only see the same people make the same demands so many times before I feel the need to call them out on it.  You need to get a new schtick, because this grew tiresome quite a while back.  

Fifth, troll rate me all you want, but you know in the back of your head that I'm right.

Sixth, well, I just felt the need to keep counting.  It's late.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:23:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hop into the wayback machine, Sherman! (2.00 / 3)

We've got a nomination to win!


by spunkmeyer on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:59:53 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

No one is shoving Hillary Clinton aside. Not. Gonna. Happen. There is a chance Obama will pick her as VP. Then again, he might not. It's Unity Eve. Let's enjoy it. We get to see two incredible leaders of this country together in a town that is absolutely thrilled with having two great Americans visit them. Barack and MIchelle Obama are maxxed out donors to Hillary Clinton. More of that will follow. Trust in the brilliance of these two people. Or don't. I respect you too much to say other than it's always great to see your posts.


Barack Obama is my President
by Jeter on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:07:21 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 1)

"No one is shoving Hillary Clinton aside"

Saying things does not make them true.

Dean and Pelosi spend months trying to shove Clinton aside...

MSNBC spend months trying to shove Clinton aside...

Dailykos has spend YEARS trying to shove Clinton aside...

If no one shoved her aside it has a lot more to do with her than with them...


by dtaylor2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 05:22:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Guess what! (none / 0)

Dean and Pelosi have the RIGHT to pick and support ANYONE they want so get over it.


by Grissom1001 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:08:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess what! (2.00 / 1)

Not if they do it under the cover of DNC chair and House speaker while pretending to not have a horse in the race.

Both Pelosi and Dean were out of line.  Banna Republic out of line.


by dtaylor2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:55:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 1)

We are shoving her aside.  She lost.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:23:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 4)

I saw a 900 ft. Jesus in Tulsa, Oklahoma.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:28:43 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 4)

You've reminded me of the perfect reply to this diary:


by Kysen on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:24:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 2)

look kids, it's a 'buzz clip'.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:30:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 1)

All things are negotiable. This is part of the game of politics. Obama would like to to have a unanimous first vote for the symbolism of it and Hillary would like something in return, such as 30 minutes of prime time as key note speaker day one or two.

As to the VP slot this is not something you negotiate. I am sure she is on the list, but I am not so sure she'll be asked. Let's face it Obama may feel she is more important to his administration elsewhere and it is his choice.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:24:02 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

...Plus, if Hillary is not selected as VP and IF Obama has eight years in office, Obama's VP will be the first VP in years to lose the nomination should Hillary run again!!!


by Check077 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

Maybe maybe not. My crystal ball is broken :)


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 1)

Actually, you're ignoring a very important fact:

Time. It doesn't stop, and by the time Obama's VP is ready to run for Pres, some of the Hardest of the PUMA's and Senator Clinton Bitter-ites will be gone.....passed from this mortal coil?  

Because, again, it's the over 60 crowd that is most gung-ho for the Hillary suicide pact!

And more and more voters who have NO IDEA about Bill or Hillary or the 90s will be in the voting booth.

Sorry, the power you think you and the other PUMAs have is already passing....So, as full of braggadicio as your boast is, it's just hot air....


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:01:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

Well, if 60 makes me a PUMA, I guess I'll have about 30 years (barring death or incapacitation) to make sure the rest of the people remembers. I guess I'll register as an independent at that time. Give 'em Hell, pumas!

However, since Obama is not president yet, he has one problem TIME and Votes. Those general election polls are just being generous to Obama, but he'll need those same old democrats to get elected this time. So, PUMA give them HELL!!!


by Check077 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:35:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

11% are funny (2.00 / 2)

They think people are taking them seriously.  After it stops being funny it is kind of sad.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:37:26 AM EST

SHE LOST (none / 0)

And it is not yur, her supporters or the delegates place to tell him he must take her as his VP. NO ONE has the right to pick his VP for him.
As for roll call? SHE LOST.
by Grissom1001 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:02:40 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

...Plus, if Hillary is not selected as VP and IF Obama has eight years in office, Obama's VP will be the first VP in years to lose the nomination should Hillary run again!!!


by Check077 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:11:30 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 2)

I thought this was a joke until I read your other posts.  Just sayin'.  The exclamation points add a 'snidely whiplash' air to it.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:27:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Still not very enthused about Obama... (none / 0)

...it's his choice to pick his VP and it's MY choice to vote for who the hell I want to...

There's no two ways about it...sir or madam!!!!!


by Check077 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:13:08 AM EST

Re: Still not very enthused about Obama... (2.00 / 2)

Why do you think people care about your vote?


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:20:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Still not very enthused about Obama... (1.75 / 4)

Exactly!

The most annoying thing about the Pumas is:

"I'm gonna vote for McCain and YOU'LL be Sorry?"

No, I won't. If you want to act like a angry 4 year old, be my guest?

In fact, based on your posts, I ENCOURAGE you to become a Republican as soon as possible.

In the traditional revolutionary theory, many of the weakest and most destructive members are "encouraged" through intimidation to "desert" to the other side.

The idea being, let them carry this dead-weight?

So, PLEASE, go be a Republic ASAP?

Let them deal with your silly ass tantrums when you don't get your way....


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:05:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Still not very enthused about Obama... (2.00 / 1)

Probably because there's an election in November that we hope can be won be the Democrat. We should all care.


by LakersFan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe he's insecure about the roll call (2.00 / 1)

he's either afraid they'll hand the nomination to her (they will not) or he's afraid people will be reminded it was a close primary, and he will look weak.


by catfish2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:17:24 AM EST

Re: Maybe he's insecure about the roll call (2.00 / 1)

My hope is that he just wants to piss off the 11%'ers.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:21:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he's insecure about the roll call (2.00 / 1)

They're perpetually pissed off.  That's why they're the 11%'ers.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:28:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he's insecure about the roll call (none / 0)

Or maybe he just thinks it's a bad idea.  Or maybe he hasn't decided yet.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:24:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 1)

Wait, a Clinton dead-ender?

They still make those?  Not even Hillary Clinton is a Clinton dead-ender.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:47:10 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 1)

I don't think you know what "democracy" means.  And, spare us the pontificating that this is yet another non-negotiable issue for you.  You've made it clear that you're voting for McCain if Clinton is not the VP.  Take your tantrum elsewhere.


by rfahey22 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 11:14:31 AM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (2.00 / 2)

All this can be solved in heartbeat. All he has to do is put her on the ticket and bingo total unity. The only people who don't like the idea are the Clinton haters in the Dem party and the extreme Obamanauts. Usually the same people. So far his poll numbers have been a very mixed bag I'd say and indicate there is still a lot of discomfort among dems and dem leaning indies. Of course not say the Obamanauts all's roses in the garden. So why are these arguments still going on daily here?


by ottovbvs on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 12:24:10 PM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

Nikki, Hillary Clinton's inspiring and transformative campaign for the Democratic nomination is now over.

If Hillary wants to be VP, Obama is in no position to deny this with nearly 1/2 the delegates at the convention pledged hillary supporters.

Wrong: he is the only one in the position to give it.  That's what winning the nomination means.

Hillary supporters cannot be expected to get on the band wagon, only to then have their candidate shoved aside.

She's not your candidate anymore, because she's not campaigning for anything anymore.  She's a supporter of the Democratic nominee.

Asking for respect and understanding from the Obama campaign is one thing.  But pretending that Clintonites are in a position to negotiate and make demands over the VP or the convention is just wishful thinking.  She is not a candidate anymore.  She herself says this.  Those who supported her (note the past tense) are free to vote for whomever they want for whatever reasons.  But she is not in a position to demand anything from him, and she herself understands this.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:15:47 PM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

You're right. There's no democrat running in the 2008 presidential race.


by Check077 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:50:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

Hillary does not want to be part of losing ticket.
She is just trying to be polite, but she s thinking 2012
Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 04:17:02 PM EST

Re: The Roll Call and Hillary as VP (none / 0)

Yes I'm sure.  I hear she's already contacting leaders from the holding on sweetie community.


by MeganLocke on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:53:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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